Ep 1: Getting Groovy with Betty Grumble

Host Blue Lucine (00:01):

We, The City is recorded on Gadigal land. I pay my respects to the traditional custodians, the elders past, present, and emerging.

 

Tegan Nicholls (00:11):

Just a heads up this episode contains some adult language.

 

Host Blue Lucine (00:25):

Art. Activism. Identity. Diving deep with one artist a week, we meet the individuals who use their art to trigger change in the City of Sydney, who are they and what's their story ? Stick around to find out on We, The City.

 

Host Blue Lucine (00:51):

Hi, I'm Blue Lucine, and today on We, The City I speak with performance artist, Emma- Maye Gibson, inventor of Betty Grumble, stage critter and action of spirituality and member of sex clown history. I talk with Emma- Maye about methodology, philosophy, community, love, and staying creative in a pandemic landscape. Here's Emma- Maye.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (01:19):

I find it, uh, it's good to move energy around by being in conversation with people. So I've been on quite a journey the last couple of months. So it could be good to have a conversation about hopeful things and art things and creative things.

 

Host Blue Lucine (01:37):

Yeah, definitely. And I think, um, it's hard to realise what we've perhaps been through until we start vocalising it talk about, and then we have that kind of realisation of like, oh wow, this is where I've come from. This is where I am now when -

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (01:54):

Yeah.

 

Host Blue Lucine (01:54):

Holy crap. That was a thing.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (01:56):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Reflection space process. Yeah. Definitely feels like a time where we're all in a real, uh, quickening and pressurising and it's every time somebody's like, how are you? I just do this hand gesture of like a roller coaster, or waves. And then they nod like, yes, it's very that very, very up and down, but I'm just grateful to be able to be able to speak about it, muse on it, reflect on it. Do silly dances about it. Yeah.

 

Host Blue Lucine (02:31):

Well, thank you Emma- Maye for joining me today. Um, you are a fixture in Sydney's nightlife. For, I have been for such a long time and everywhere you go, you spread so much joy and just ooze this vibrant energy, um, in mine and a lot of other people's opinions. Um, I was wondering for our listeners, if you could describe Betty Grumble?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (02:56):

So hello. Thank you for having me. Um, yeah. My civilian name is Emma-Maye Gibson and, uh, about a little over 10 years ago, I invented, uh, an avatar sister, um, imaginary friend, war mask, love letter, and called her Betty Grumble. And I called her thus because my father's parents, my grandparents, Betty, she was amazing grandmother to me. And then my grandfather's name, we, well, we called him Grumble, which is a strange Australianism to grumbly older men, our Grumble. And one day I was doing this gig with, um, myself and Charlotte Farrell and Claire Testone. And that was the first art gang formed at uni feminist kind of striptease burlesque thing that we were experimenting with called "What makes men blush". And we thought we should make up alter ego names. And I came up with Betty Grumble and it stuck. Uh, so for me, she is an action of my spirituality.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (04:04):

When I first started doing her, I was doing her in hit nightclub, queer spaces, burlesque drag, cabaret, um, performance art and art galleries, and doing five to eight minute pieces. She was really a way for me to like play with my body as a site for pleasure and protest and move my hope and rage energy around. And she still is that for me, uh, even after so many years, but I'm definitely experiencing a maturation, my practice at the moment. And I feel like when I first started grumbling, she looked a really particular way and she had a real particular, um, aesthetic and, um, appearance and way of moving. And I think about that as kind of carapace and that's sort of been able to melt off quite literally to reveal me and yeah, I'm so grateful to have the audiences that I've had and the connections and the peers and the camaraderie in creative space to story-tell, move, move, move trouble around and, and share joy and be playful together. It's been a real lifesaver and life affirming thing. Not without its challenges to, yeah. I'm going to be a performance artist. Um, yeah. So Betty Betina, Betina Grimbel she's yeah, yeah. Again, I'll say an action of my spirituality. Um, I'm excited for this next bit and curious about what will happen next

 

Host Blue Lucine (05:51):

And for those of, uh, the audience listening, who hadn't, um, perhaps seen Betty Grumble on stage, if you had to describe, uh, cuz 10 years is a long time and, and Betty has changed over that time. Um, how would you describe her onstage presence in those early years?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (06:10):

well, I use the words war mask before, and when she first came outta my body, she was very grotesque and angular and particular about her movement. She would do these, this was one act that was like, someone's like, it's like your Mona Lisa, but, um, I called it the showgirl poo and she would come out to dadda, da, da, da, da, and do hyper real striptease movements, but kind of repeat them and, um, morph them to make them even more ridiculous and then strip down and then shit. And it was not real shit, although they're are people that do that and that's amazing, but mine was a colorful, often play doh poo. And then in, uh, more recent years it's become a clay poo that then was rolled in. We used to roll it in glitter and now it's hundreds and thousands. And then the, the, the shit.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (07:08):

So I've, I'm really lucky to be friends with Peaches for amazing Peaches who's so just a hero of performance art music. And there was one show where we just met and I did this showgirl poo and threw it into the audience and she caught it. And then years later I was in Berlin at her house and she's like, come and come over here and look at this Betty. And she's like, I lacquered it and she lacquered the shit and it was on her mantlepiece. And like, this is an affirming moment. Um, so yeah, for people who aren't yeah, it's a good story. That's amazing am showing off, but she, that, it gave me a lot of hope as a practitioner as well. Cause this legend was so generous with their energy. And one thing that's been really exciting to me is that the work that I make, the voice, the, um, articulation lands with people mm-hmm , I often play with the surreal and abstract, um, but lands.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (08:00):

And even in those short nightclub pieces, uh, the stories I'd be telling were ones of defiance and reclamation energy, and my beautiful mentor who had to part this world a couple of weeks ago, Elizabeth Burton, she used to say of herself, she's an amazing Striptease artist that the light just shot out of her. And she used to call everyone goddess. And so she became known as the goddess, but she's, so I was put on this planet to remind people to be kind to themselves. And I feel like I belong to that worlding as well. So remind you to be in your body and that there is no one way to be in your body and that our bodies and our sensuality are sacred aspects to how we are in the world. Um, and so much, um, of the protests that has happened within my performance. And therefore the connections I have with people have been about pushing back against patriarchal violence in these systems.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (08:57):

That really we're very, really at enough of it now, but like trying to create a healing space for, um, acts of defiance that it's simultaneously war mask and love letter that Betty Grumble meaning making. Um, and I've been really lucky to like I've started with short little acts and then started touring big longform works all around the world. I've done "Sex clown saves the world" was my first kind of foray into, came in a hold space for an hour with people. And then we did "Love and Anger", um, which used Valerie Sal's scum manifesto as a, a spinal cord, um, in all of its complexity. And then the "Un-shame machine" where I do a thousand pussy prints in an hour. And that becomes like a endurance piece and, uh, installation and party. And I have guest performers. And at the moment we're working on a show called "Enemies of Grooviness eat shit" where I talk about composting myself.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (10:02):

And it's about, you know, if I'm gonna get a bit philosophical about it, um, taking Betty off or letting her slide off, looking at her and saying, Hey, this is how I've healed myself through creativity. Um, I'm composting myself now to say, thank you to Betty. She's not dying, but she does kind of belong to the universe. Now she's on, t-shirts like a thing that exists outside of my body. And I think that that is really special. I'm really grateful for that. Yeah. That's where I'm at now. Enemies of grooviness each year, we're doing it for vivid.

 

Host Blue Lucine (10:39):

Yeah. I'm really looking forward to going and seeing that the first one hour show that I did see was "Sex Clown Saves the World". And I wanted to just muse on that title. What was sex clown kind of designed to do?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (10:59):

Um, so I, as a way of describing myself to people in a mischievous way, I started somebody called me a sex clown once I went, oh yeah, that's a nice collision of two words. And then people like what is a sex clown? Which

 

Host Blue Lucine (11:18):

It's a very provocative term, I

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (11:20):

Guess sex clown is something you probably should just experience or you people,

 

Host Blue Lucine (11:24):

You just see it to believe it.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (11:26):

Yeah. Yeah. But there are it's I come from a long legacy of sex clowns. So I, you know, heroes of mine, like I would call Iggy pop are kind of a sex clown. And, uh, there's a legend Glitter Supernova who really carved out performance art space in Sydney and now runs central coast pride, Naughty Noodle Funhouse, but she had, she had just a huge, um, part in making space for me to perform in pretty people's cabaret before that her and sex intense ran a all women, um, strip club called girl-esque. Um, yeah, I know would to people that wanted to be defined sex clown is somebody who's interested in using erotic energy and their fleshy body to challenge and undo and invite exciting ways of being with, without sex energy, cuz sex energy is such a creative, powerful force that is so it's become so co-opted and, um, uh,

 

Host Blue Lucine (12:26):

And so misunderstood. Yeah. By so many,

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (12:30):

So much shame. Yeah. Because I've been listening to an amazing witch called Star Hawk. Talk about it's a book called Earth Magic. Um, and she's talking about the history of witchcraft and earth worship culture and um, uh, yeah, I think so much of what I'm interested in is a return to the body and to nature and our, that our bodies now the begin or end that we are constantly in cyclic, uh, concert with nature, but we have been deliberately amputated from it because people benefit from control and power and they benefit from making us scared of our sexuality. And that's why we might have so much contortion and damage and danger within sexuality because there is so much shame. And, uh, you know, like Elizabeth said, be kind to you. And Elizabeth used to say, who made sex a rude and dirty thing, especially the queer bodies, like all of our bodies really, but I've got a lived experience as a woman. And I've been in deep process of trying to unpack and unha, uh, that, which has been a huge experience for me, which is a ways in which I've personally been made to feel like my body's not my own body. Mm-hmm , you know, so yeah, Earth's magic.

 

Host Blue Lucine (13:54):

Uh, what I admire so much and what enamours me when I watch you perform is your ability to pair high energy and intensity, right beside that raw vulnerability and earnestness, which I suppose is at the heart of, of clowning. Um, can you tell me a little bit about the process of creating one of your shows?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (14:16):

Yeah. Well, you mentioned "Sex clown, save the world". And then I went on tangents about magic, but that I, that was, you know, I began that show in a bin because in my life I'd experienced particular, um, things that had made me feel discarded. And I know that that is a through line for people to feel like other, that boundaries have been violated and that you've been discarded. And there's so much we in the capitalist scene, we bear witness to the ways in which, um, corporate bodies, machismo bodies, um, think that they are entitled to our bodies or to the earth bodies. So the bin dance was an important beginning point then to reweave my way out of, and the final scene is me with the earth of my head. And then I'm lip syncing with my vulva. Don't leave me this way. Um, and the vulnerability earnestness, yeah.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (15:14):

I've experienced as well. I, people who haven't seen my practice will make assumptions because the way I use my body, um, because I often appear hyper hyper fleshy and eroticized. And it's, I think that it's important to recognize for myself, um, that those agendas that other people have are, you know, that's part of the work as well. Like even now I'm coming up against, you know, again, invited to a gig and then at a, quite a big art school, it all goes forward. And then some big boss sends an email that says, oh, we're just worried. It won't be appropriate. Um, so when you come up against kind of, you know, and I wonder Mike, like Mike Par popped into my head, I'm like, I'm sure you'd be fine with that being in space, but also aspects of their work would be really challenging for some other people, but there's still so much, it's like, oh gosh, you couldn't possibly be saying anything serious.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (16:20):

If she's clowning around or laughing or being joyous in her body, there's still so much to deprogram around bodies in space, how we're meant to behave hierarchies, um, of seriousness and how we're having conversations with each other. But, um, yeah, I'm a vulnerable, I I'm vulnerable. I'm very, um, grateful to be so vulnerable in space like that. And that's always kind of come naturally and I'm very interested in the ways in which the clown is a really important figure in history as a so kind of, uh, shamanic figure and a border rider. And, um, you know, I think there's a Charlie Chaplin quote. That's something like, oh gosh, I can't even remember it now, but about politicians and like, I would trust a clown before I would a politician. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Host Blue Lucine (17:26):

When you are conceiving a show and then developing it, do you start with a theme you wanna explore? Do you have a dream first? Is it a, a poem that comes outta your body? Do you start with a dance? Yeah. I'm assuming it's probably different every time, but

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (17:44):

Yeah, it's a tapestry. And I've been asked this question before, and it's a funny one to answer about process about creative process dreams. Music's a huge, huge influence. Um, and I've been really lucky to collaborate a lot with Paul Mac and Johnny Seymour of Sterogamous. And they're amazing gay uncles of mine. And yeah, it starts with an image or an idea. And then I allow myself to play and discover things. And I, for example, the pussy printing that has become a part of my practice that started in love and anger, but it started one night when I was starting to bleed in my room, I went, I'm gonna divine something from this. And I pressed myself into a piece of paper and I laughed like, oh, it kind of looks like a bird. Like, oh, what if I could repeat this on stage? And I'm like, okay, what if I did it while I was singing?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (18:39):

And then from "Love and Anger", you, you know, I, what if I did it a thousand times? What if I, I used a lateral pull down machine. So that's why queer space nightclub space has been so important because it allows you to go, okay, I've got this idea. And then while you're in the doing-ness, you have another idea. Okay, now this thing can be that. And when I first was, uh, when I I've, when I was, since I was little, I've always wanted to be an actor or make work. Right? Yeah. But when, when I was about 18 and first trying to navigate the maybe more mainstream performance world, I became really frustrated by the ways in which it made me feel. Didn't make me feel like I agency like kudos to people that could navigate it. I'm like, oh, maybe this, maybe there's another way. And went to art school like, oh, you can make performance art . So I really can't say thank you enough to all the opportunities I've had to make work like every week, even at the moment, stepping back into, I can perform at the bearded tit, perform at the bearded tit tonight. That's a really important space and doing some work at a Newtown Hotel, and yeah, there are seeds, you have seeds of ideas. And for me, it's in the doing-ness that they, you can discover things.

 

Host Blue Lucine (20:13):

What is it about those queer spaces and the parties saying that that helped you kind of cultivate and, and grow those, those ideas. Oh, what's unique about those spaces, uh, the people that don't get to experience them yeah.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (20:28):

Or queer space, um, how would I define it? I would define it as a space that is very interested in liberation of all bodies. You walk in there and it's a true representation of lots of different cultures, intersecting and chattering to each other. And people in deep listening and respect and having really important nonverbal conversations with their bodies because there is a contract going on with the knowledge of the invitation into queer space. And I remember vividly my friend, Charlotte, who was in "What makes men blush", took me to the red rattler and experiencing parties there. Cause when I was young going night clubbing, I was like, oh, this is not for me. This is absolutely not the music, not the, not the way I wanted to be on a dance floor. I would often get into a lot of trouble because men would do and I would react.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (21:28):

So queer space is also a space where I feel safe to dance for the most part and also space to be my body. It's a space where we're encouraged to push boundaries and to be vulnerable. And it's been a really life saving force where you often talk about spaces like that as holding logical family, like you've got your biological family and your logical family. So you find kindred spirits there. It's also a space that holds people to account in really complex and vital ways. Yeah. We can have really tough conversations together. Um, people look out for each other. Yeah. Community as Magana Holloway says, um, it's all about fucking community. And I've been thinking a lot about my responsibility to community as I've benefited from it for so long. And I'm going into this, you know, I, if you think about the maiden mother crone aspects of the goddess, um, I'm kind of in this, I'm transferring into the mother of my art practice. Yeah. Like how am I holding space and what does, what does a really beautiful, uh, inviting space look like? Anyone can come to a queer space. So just respect

 

Host Blue Lucine (22:48):

When I watch you perform there's there's chaos ad there's mess. And then as an audience member, there's this feeling of ecstasy because you feel like anything could happen at any minute, but then I can also see this utter precision and control that you have over the space and yourself at, at the same time. And I'm just curious, how do you strike that balance?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (23:16):

Thank you. That's a very lovely feedback. Um, chaos, and mess. And precision. I mean, because this is my craft, this is something that I practice every day and I've trained in my life 5, 6, 7, 8 Dance Land. And I've sought out other practitioners who train their bodies to be on stage because the stage is a sacred site and it's to be respected. So I'm really happy to hear that that is recognised in my work. I feel it when I'm on stage. And I also feel it when I go awry a little bit, cuz one does, um, when you're working things out. But, um, yes, it is a balance and I have always thought about the body as, uh, the paradox of it being a container and also that things spill out of it. And that's queer queerness as well, like the space in between things that we're challenging, um, structures and systems.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (24:18):

And so that mess, which is often like blood or confetti or garbage it's things spilling out has always been, um, something that's repeated in my work. And now, uh, I've noticed that water has been a really important conduit cuz it's like literally helped me slime the makeup off, um, bathe myself and yeah, I'm thinking deeply about grief and pleasure and um, uh, the communal space of ceremony and ritual. So yeah, I gotta gotta have it together to be able to conduct that, but, um, it's a wonderful energy when it's really singing and it's also something we all do together. I come with my energy and the audience comes with theirs and there's a third space that we create together. So it's like, how do you set up all of the, um, the artifacts and the invitations to make that space happen? It's like a spell in that way.

 

Host Blue Lucine (25:21):

And did you, do you say you went to, you did performance art at art school. Mm-hmm did you do clown training in itself?

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (25:30):

I, well, I've done bits of clown training with other clowns here and there mm-hmm but I, yeah, my

 

Host Blue Lucine (25:39):

Not to say you should have had, I'm just curious.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (25:41):

No, no, I, I have, I've studied, I did a little workshop with Dr. Brown once, but I'd already been working for a really long time and I'm maybe a natural clown, but, and, but I'm very deeply interested in the history of clown and the techniques and the ways of being that people use to access it. Um, and all of the kind of politics within clowning as well.

 

Host Blue Lucine (26:02):

Yeah. I went to clown school. There's a lot of politics.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (26:04):

Oh, okay. Respect.

 

Host Blue Lucine (26:05):

So I think it's very interesting.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (26:07):

Which, which clown school?

 

Host Blue Lucine (26:08):

I went in Spain, but it was only for three months for

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (26:10):

The women's.

 

Host Blue Lucine (26:12):

It was a, it was at De Bont's college in, in Ibiza. Oh,

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (26:16):

Cool. So it

 

Host Blue Lucine (26:17):

Was, but I, um, it's, uh, it's interesting about the politics of clowns school, the European schools and the, the, this and the, this. So I've always wondered watching you like, um, you know, and I think, yeah, but the, all of everything that you do just sings an innate clown to me. And I think that's why it's so enamouring, like through all, everything you do, there's that, um, kind of golden thread between you and the audience and it just sings and sings and sings and gets louder and quieter and louder and quieter and you know, it's gorgeous to kind of watch and then be a part of,

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (26:57):

Yeah, thank you. Respect to the clown school. It is funny. It's again, the paradox like schools and ethos, like it, the benefit of training and structure, but then also you've gotta take that and then just throw it away. It's like, definitely what's like getting up on stage. I I've prepared everything, but I also have to be open. Anything will happen. So, uh, a real it's and use the word ecstasy before a truly ecstatic experience for me as well. And that's why I also really, you know, with deep consent and respect, think about that performance space as an erotic space. Yeah. It's deeply, deeply intimate, especially my work is always doing really autobiographical and it, like you said, earnest that way. And it's interesting how that disrupts and disturbs people as well. You know, my work isn't for everyone, but it's, I, again, so grateful for the ways in which it's landed. And then when you can see yourself reflected back or people connect it's, it's truly sacred. Yeah.

 

Host Blue Lucine (28:03):

With that autobiographical element of it. How do you care for yourself within that process?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (28:11):

Again, with this stage of maturation, I'm really lucky to, okay. Elizabeth's amazing mentor. I'm a mentor by another sex clown, Annie Sprinkle the performance artist and pornographer and eco sexual. I turn to mentors and I'm trying to, um, yeah, take better care of myself because the body is a vessel and you like some shows as you be aware, you, after the show, you're like I'm full and some shows. So it's like, what am I doing in my daily practice to take care of myself. I go to the ocean a lot. I have a circle of friends and likeminded folk that I chatter with. Um, I have a therapist, I go and lay on a table and people put their hands on me, you know, and say, what, how are we resourcing ourselves to make sure that energy's flowing back into the body? And I really feel the need to schedule as that more, but that's a process I also think really deeply about.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (29:12):

And I've definitely crossed boundaries myself and made mistakes in averted commas about, um, uh, about how much I give. But I think that's also part of learning what to do and what not to, I don't know. It's constantly shifting, but, um, yeah, I used to go out after every show about, hi everyone. Well now I do not do that anymore. Um, yeah. Yeah. Self self-love and self care, especially when you're excavating deeply personal stuff. But for me, I almost, my, the biggest thing I'm thinking about at the moment is that my, my myself and care, but also what it means to talk about pain and trauma and grief in a room full of people. Like you open the portal up. And how are you also as Barbara Corellas who I did an amazing course with called urban tantra. She wrote a book called urban tantra and sh one of her quotes is "ecstasy is necessary", but say, okay, you've opened up the window. How are you pulling down the blinds at the end? And that's that where ceremony and ritual is so important. Yeah. I, I'm turning to mentorship now to deepen my care.

 

Host Blue Lucine (30:40):

I was wondering if you did wanna talk about your show enemies mm-hmm

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (30:43):

for sure.

 

Host Blue Lucine (30:44):

Yeah. And what led to that and what it was like putting that if you're talking about opening things

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (30:48):

And oh yeah, that's a portal. Um, so gosh, it's so funny to think about time. Um, the year it was 2018. So I started working with a producer up until this point. I've been totally self-funded. I have never gotten funding. Um, I tried, but it's a, it's a whole trip onto itself, but I've been hard

 

Host Blue Lucine (31:12):

To put sex clown in a ..., ?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (31:13):

Well, there's, you know, it's all that weird validation. Yeah. Watch his watch, watch, watch. But, um, I started working with Tom Smyth and performing lines who produce independent artists and they're really cool, totally changed my life. And it's come at a really important moment. So Tom's come along. We've gotten funding to develop this work "Enemies", which we managed to do a first iteration of at the red rattler, which was really important because that had been such a seed place for my, um, work and my friendships. The show was about my experience of intimate partner violence and also the loss of one of my best friends, Sage soul, sister Candy, Royale, who is a queer Palestinian poet, beloved by community political, just legend of performance in, um, Sydney. And I, yeah, I I'd, I, I wanted to address the ways in which I'd used my creativity to process and heal.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (32:20):

So I started thinking about composting and we developed this show that had those, I, I, I brought Annie sprinkle onto stage and used one of her preexisting rituals and performance with her permission. I brought Candy onto stage and she was on the altar. Um, and yeah, we did this first work. That is, if you put all my shows together, like "Sex Clown Saves the World" and "Love and Anger" and "Un-shame Machine", you can really see a, uh, process. And so what I hope for enemies is that I can deepen being seen and deepen the spiritual work that can happen in that space. Now, after a few more years of pandemic and again, another two pronged loss of a mentor, Elizabeth and a boy, Ooh, creepy Crawley break up. Um, I am thinking again, even deeper about grief, ritual and renewal, um, and how to invite everyone into a space where like I'm talking about these autobiographical things, but there are examples of, um, life events and how I use poetry and dance and, uh, ritual in the water to move them around.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (33:49):

So it definitely dramaturgically has the same, um, punk rock and roll party. I really would. I like the sensation like it's, oh, I often do this with my friend, like 3:00 AM. You've been out all night and you are sitting in the kitchen together having a talk and it's deeply intimate that way. Um, as well as being, um, grounded in spectacle. Yeah. So I'm rewriting at the moment and we're doing it for vivid in South Eveleigh Works, which is a functional blacksmiths during the day. So yeah, the show I talk about it as a show, I do instead of an assassin assassination attempt. So I do playfully talk about that raging body in that way, but as I've matured, my rage energy, I think I've deep deepened my love energy. She was always there. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. So the title's now "Enemies of Grooviness Eat Shit".

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (34:54):

Yeah. The title was always "Enemies of Grooviness Eat Shit" Uhhuh and people again, it's like 'what's a Sex clown?' Like 'what's an enemy of grooviness?' So I, I think one by just saying that sentence, you kind of I've made shirts and people walk around in them as well. Uh, an enemy of grooviness I, what is, so I've always used the word groovy as well. Like a super dag I'm like groovy a grooviness is, um, the history of that word is when the needle falls on the rec - groove of the record, like when the record's really good it's, Groovy something in that. Yeah. I think there's so much noise and so much pain and confusion about where to direct what, for those of us who are in deep feeling about it, what is, uh, just total betrayal by, uh, bodies in positions of power? Um, just psychopathic, just mad, um, ecocide and cultural, just violence that they're doing to the earth and refugees and first nation bodies and queer bodies.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (36:08):

And what, how, how can we create a space where we can feel those things? I don't have any answers for that. I say, especially in this reckoning time where we're starting to talk about violence and perpetrators of violence and culture, there's almost a binary going on of perpetrator and victim. And it kind of sits there like, oh, what's the space that we can create that, um, is that compost bin where things are breaking apart. And yeah, I just wanna offer a space of a deep breath of all of those things coalescing together and they don't feel so impossible. Yeah. I don't know the way through, but I hope that I can make a space where people feel a sense of recognition.

 

Host Blue Lucine (37:00):

So that's in June,

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (37:01):

Isn't it? June is when we are doing "Enemies of Grooviness eat shit" at Vivid. in the music category.

 

Host Blue Lucine (37:08):

Oh, that's fun. And, uh, what should the audience anticipate to experience? How should they prepare themselves?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (37:15):

Oh, um, just have a gorgeous little cup of tea or a Prosecco um, uh, it's going to be, uh, I would hope whatever you, you can take from it, what you need or want, um, party, it'll be a party, it'll be a gentle kiss. It'll be, um, a space where you can just be a bit of a mess if you need to be. Um, and yeah, I just hope it's some fertile ground. It's all be really intimate. Um, funny, also bit sexy too. And I'm excited to deepen my vulnerability in ways that I haven't before, um, and deepen the poetics of space. Yeah. Share my body again. And, um, be together. It's a space for us to be together with the trouble as Donna Haraway would say, staying with the trouble. How, how are we together in it? Yeah. It's not an answer. It's just a space to feel.

 

Host Blue Lucine (38:29):

Uh, it takes so much courage to be that vulnerable on a stage. Mm. Um, has that gotten easier as you've matured or gotten more difficult?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (38:38):

Um, I think I keep challenging myself to do more, more, do more, uh, like I keep using the word deeper and deepen, deepen things. And my mentor said to me recently of grief, I was going through like trying to wrap my head around things I'm like, come on. So just let it undo you, let it un-become you like, oh, there's something so interesting in that imagery for me, I, Ooh. It's like when you are really deep in a psychedelic trip, um, or in an alter altered state from whatever, uh, breath, uh, or watching a show or going for a run or doing a dance. But when you are in these moments of yielding and surrendering to really all mighty intense thoughts and feelings that don't really have coherence in terms of our humanoid brains. Yeah. I yield, I let it UN become me and it's likL a camera zooming in and out.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (39:38):

So that's what I'm trying to yield to at the moment. It's like, okay, how can I create a psychedelic space like that? Where I'm not, you know, so much of creativity is like, what am I showing? And also, what am I choosing not to show, which allows an audience to play in the, in between space and also get what they desire from it. Yeah. Vulnerability. I also surround myself with people that support me in that vulnerability in the show is one of my greatest mates, Magana Holloway, as her drag king persona Craig's List. And she was there that day in the courtroom where I was giving evidence against this person that had done wrong. And it was such a, it was such a, uh, just a moment of how this patriarchy just infiltrates systems like that, that the defense attorney was allowed to shame me and attack me the way they did.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (40:45):

So the show unpacks that, but Megan was sitting there in the courtroom, just up the back in this House of Hell, like skull design knives coming out of it, jumper and her hair just sticking up, just going, like, she sat there for three hours just going like, oh, you can do it. I love you. So the show's about that friendship as well. And that was a real moment of community, like, oh, and yeah, I, I, I I'm really excited about it, but I, the more you make, I think the more you open yourself up, you're like, okay, how do I keep articulating these very lofty, big ideas around healing around justice, around community, and I'm fallible as well. And it's like how I'm daring to be that. Yeah. And I just met up with my technician as well. And fellow artists who's been, who did "Sex Clown" with me and "Love and Anger" and "Unshame", Alex Torney. And they're just a legend and Tom. So yeah, the, the, the, the creative team itself is also a community. Yeah. I'm very well protected.

 

Host Blue Lucine (41:59):

That's very good to hear. Very good to hear. Are you mentioned earlier that when you were a little kid, you always wanted to be an actor. Oh, yes. I wanted to know, uh, what were you like as a kid?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (42:16):

I was a rambunctious little audacious. Um, my mother always says you never stop jumping around. You just moving around. I was, yeah. Full of energy. I went to 5, 6, 7, 8 dance and drama land, always doing little shows. I just thought, yeah, totally believed in fairies, watched the wizard of Oz and Rocky horror over and over again on VHS taped from the TV. Uh, I think a lot of queers did that. Um, and yeah, just a lot of energy, but also held a lot of space for deep grief stuff growing up. There's a member of my family. That's, uh, disabled and that's been a big part of my, um, yeah, physically disabled, big part of my growing up and really being in my body. I think that I'm incredibly grateful for all the facility and ability that I have to move. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Host Blue Lucine (43:17):

I was gonna ask you who your parents were and

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (43:19):

Yes. What, what,

 

Host Blue Lucine (43:21):

What life, what impact their lives had on your, your

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (43:25):

Life? Yeah, they are amazing. Um, and, uh, my father's a GP family doctor, and one of those ones that is, you know, a classic family doctor has been like a dad to so many people. And his practice is in Fairfield. And as many doctors do have as well, that has a musical streak. So when the pandemic happened, I did this online variety night my dad actually sang a song. It was really sweet and my mother was a nurse and then an actor and then an aerobics champion and then a bodybuilder and then ran a women's gym. So there's this through line of embodiment, campery thank you body. Um, in my mother's life that has directly influenced me, like I do my grumble boogies aerobic classes. Um, yeah. My parents are amazing creative people who have also been healers and I've been really lucky to be really supported by them, but it's also not without its complexity because they're from a different generation and I'm their baby. And I, I run around nude. Um, that's something that we're working through and I don't necessarily, my parents have come to see my shows, but I don't necessarily want to do my shows in front of my parents, but I, I do want them to understand the relationship to community and the, my, my, my philosophy. They do. Yeah.

 

Host Blue Lucine (44:58):

Speaking of the pandemic and Grumble Boogie, um, I mean, what a phenomenon you've managed to create, uh, can you tell, tell the listeners about, about that?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (45:09):

Yeah. So for phoar for many years, I'd done grumble boogies in person. And then,

 

Host Blue Lucine (45:17):

And what is a grumble boogie?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (45:18):

Oh, what is a grumble boogie? A grumble boogie is an aerobic disco dance class. So it's an hour long. And we do, um, quite work out gooey, warm up cardio, bit of heart pumping muscularity stuff. And then we learn a daggy routine and I teach it, and my choreography and my style of teaching is also quite chaotic and, uh, gooey. And I think people really like that it feels accessible for people. And it's been a great way for me to, uh, be supported in my art practice. And also it gives me energy to teach. I love running workshops and teaching classes. And, um, then when the pandemic hit, I just started doing a grumble boogie every morning on Instagram live or Facebook just for 20 minutes, I'm like right. We're gonna get up and move. And that was for me, for my highly, you know, body that needed that.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (46:19):

And it was ritualistic and it was great that people joined in and I've received so much love for it. And now we're doing boogies again in persons. It's really sweet, but yeah, that was, I mean, we were in it. So I don't think we fully, it's hard to realize the weight and the ramifications of that psychological just challenge we all went through, but I wanted to offer something that was embodied and silly, even if people were kind of annoyed by it as well. It was just this other, you know, come on. I mean, what let's woo. I know people definitely were like, oh God. Or they just sat and bed and watched it, but it was something else other than 11. O'clock how many cases kind of this really this intensity that we're all trying to metabolize together. And there is such magic in our bodies, in our somatic, uh, knowledge that like, I know even trying to teach class at the moment and move through deep grief stuff and heartbreak, I'm like, go, come on, Grumble, just get up and do it. And I always feel lighter better after I've moved around, get some dopamine oxytocin, all that endorphin stuff. So there's an exciting project that is going to happen, um, that I'm gonna collaborate with my sister Navine hip hop, ho, who lives in Nam and we're gonna do a 24 hour grumble boogie. Wow. And we are going to, she's gonna DJ for 24 hours and I'm gonna move around for 24 hours. That's epic. Yeah. I think hopefully it's happening. I don't wanna, you know,

 

Host Blue Lucine (48:00):

You get some electrolytes up.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (48:01):

I know we're, well, I also, in my practice, like the "Unshame machine", like, oh, what are the performance art kind of rights of passage that one does. And they are endurance performance installation. I like to play and fuck with genre in that way. And I am genuinely excited to dance for 24 hours. I think it's gonna be cathartic.

 

Host Blue Lucine (48:26):

Some you'll be in a trance. Yeah. A hundred percent.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (48:28):

Yes. Yeah. And I'm excited to see who will come and we'll have special guests and yeah, it's Tom, Tom's really excited about it as well. Can we get, we were doing the design of what the stage looks like. I'm like, yes. And then swings fall down and then fringing curtains, and then mirror balls, like just to create a sublime space. Yeah.

 

Host Blue Lucine (48:50):

Is there anything that you wanted to add?

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (48:52):

Oh, just that I'm excited to keep meeting in live space. I know we are still in this reintegrating remembering strangeness and I, I thank bodies that are coming into those spaces again. And I also give love and awareness to people who aren't there yet. And we are all negotiating that together. So, uh, just a big, thank you body to everyone that supports my work. I'm excited to see and feel everyone in space again. And yeah. As Elizabeth Burton would say big kind to you. Kindness, love energy.

 

Host Blue Lucine (49:34):

Emma-Maye thank you so much for being on We, The City.

 

Guest Emma-Maye Gibson (49:37):

My pleasure. Thank you

 

Host Blue Lucine (49:56):

We, The City is a Jerboa Production hosted by me, Blue Lucine. The City of Sydney is our principal partner and we thank the creative grants program. This episode was produced by Blue Lucine and Tegan Nicholls with original music by Matt Cornell. We, The, City is recorded on Gadigal land. Sovereignty was never ceded.

 

End of transcript